Hi Ross,
The reports module allows the creation of term report cards. However, apparently there is no direct link between gibbon’s mark book and reports created using the reports module, which is kind of odd, isn’t it? Wouldn’t it make more sense to take the data from the mark book, process all marks e.g. by applying weightings and finally extract the grades to create the reports?
What are your thoughts on that?
Kind regards,
Roman
Roman,
Good question. Whether you find it odd depends on how you approach education. The approach at my school is that we don’t use weights, rankings and serious numerical analysis. Our belief is that these approaches are unhealthy for students and promote shallow learning, fixed mindset, etc (note, this is our opinion, based on the research we have chosen to trust…not trying to insult anyone here).
Given this approach, the way Gibbon works makes perfect sense! We write summative reports based not on automatic numbers, but on our lived experience with the kids. However, many schools operate the way you describe, and would find us odd : )
Gibbon v12 supports weighting in the markbook, with a total score column. So, you could speak to the author of the Reporting module (+andystat at Rapid36), and ask him to do some custom coding to use the total value from the Markbook to populate reports.
As always, there are many ways to skin a cat…and even more ways to educate a child. Gibbon tries to be flexible and help all…but that is an almost impossible task!
Cheers,
Ross
Hi Ross,
Thanks a lot for sharing your opinion!
By “odd” I was referring to the fact, that the reports module doesn’t extract data from the mark book but rather requests the user to enter it again, which means basically a double work. Am I right about that?
I don’t see your approach as “odd” at all, rather the opposite. I’m just a software developer trying to find solutions fitting the needs of schools in my environment. I don’t have your knowledge in regard to better teaching techniques and assessments. I can’t change the existing system but rather have to adjust to it. Our exclusively grade based approach with ranking may be wrong but that’s what we have.
Do I have to install the trunk version to have a look at v12 regarding mark weighting?
Kind regards,
Roman
Roman,
Ah, I see what you mean! The commercial version of the Reporting module my school uses has the ability to import comments and grades from the Markbook, but the free version does not. Andy at Rapid36 might be willing to do a premium version of the standard module which includes the import feature.
I can appreciate your position: before becoming a teacher I was in exactly the same spot, trying to meet the educational needs of others.
If you install the v12 branch (https://github.com/GibbonEdu/core/tree/v12.0.00), you can test the new Markbook weighing functionality. It can be back ported to v11, but then the upgrade to v12 becomes harder, so I normally recommend people wait until v12 is released before using it in production.
Cheers,
Ross
Hi Ross,
Thanks, this was very helpful!
I’ll test the v12 branch and also get in touch with Andy regarding commercial version. I may need an adjusted version which includes a weighting system and class ranking.
Kind regards,
Roman
Hi Ross,
I was able to install v12 as you suggested and
installation went smoothly without any problem. To create a new mark
book was straight forward and I was able to add different test types,
e.g. exams and home works.
However, I was not able to locate the new weighting functionality. Where is this set?
Just as an additional info: I get 2 notice messages at the down of the add-column page:
- Notice: Undefined variable: guid in C:\wamp\www\gibbon12\functions.php on line 3686
- Notice: Undefined index: stringReplacement in C:\wamp\www\gibbon12\functions.php on line 37
Kind regards,
Roman
Roman,
To enable this feature go to Admin > School Admin in the main menu, and then Markbook Settings in the module menu. There is a setting called Enable Column Weighting which you will need to enable.
The notice issues are caused by some new v12 features, and we are trying to mop them up across the system. I cannot recreate the one you found, so I believe it was fixed earlier today when I fixed a range across the system. If you get the latest commits, do you still get the issue?
Thanks,
Ross
Hi Ross,
Your new weighting system in the mark book is working perfectly so far. Your idea to set targets and shading the individual marks in green/red accordingly is really useful.
What else can I say? Gibbon is great!
Kind regards,
Roman
Roman,
Thanks for the positive feedback. The design you see is the result of the collective input of many of my colleagues over the last 5 years. Some smart folks in my school : )
Ross
Hi Ross,
I had a few discussions with Andy from Rapid36 today. As a result of these discussions I have a few questions:
We want to create three terminal reports every year, because our school years are divided into three terms. The new weighting system allows us to create a customized final grade for each course. We want to use this final grade to create these three terminal report. However, we kind of need to create a final grade for each term, right? How can we achieve this?
In addition, we want to add a terminal comment for each final grade. Such a terminal comment field is not available for now, right?
Kind regards,
Roman
Roman,
One way might be to customise the list of Markbook column types, and have one called Terminal Report or something similar. You could then use the Add Multiple Columns function to create a record with this category for every reportable class at the right time for each of the three reports. Then, have Andy’s module pull across the comment from the relevant columns, and the current total grade for the subject.
Think that should work.
Ross
Hi Ross,
I think, I’m getting it! I have created a new column type “Terminal Report 1” under Admin> School Admin> Markbook Settings> Markbook Type. The purpose of this column is to store terminal comments only, right?
Let’s assume, we are in term 3. How do I keep historic data, e.g. regarding column weighting and final grades of term 1 and 2? Am I missing something here?
Kind regards,
Roman
Roman,
You can’t keep it in the Markbook, but if it was sucked into the Reporting module at some point, it would still be there.
Ross
Hi Ross,
I need more info to get a better understanding of target value and total grade. As you know, I’m not a teacher. You can answer the questions very briefly. I’m aware, that these questions may be a little bit out of scope.
Can you please explain, why you came up with the idea to add a total grade in the mark book?
Is the target value set by the teacher maybe after consulting the parents and the student?
Do you use the target value and total grade in your school?
What are you trying to achieve with target value and total grade?
Is there a way to add something like trend analysis, so we can see how the marks of the students are changing over the year?
Do you create terminal reports in your school?
What are the criteria to set the weights?
Would it make sense to use different weights for markings within the reports module to create terminal reports?
Kind regards,
Roman
Roman,
That is quite the list! Answers below in bold:
Can you please explain, why you came up with the idea to add a total grade in the mark book? It was requested by TIS Macau, as part of their assessment process.
Is the target value set by the teacher maybe after consulting the parents and the student? That is the idea, yes.
Do you use the target value and total grade in your school? No, we use neither. We are not very grade oriented, focusing more on comment-based feedback.
What are you trying to achieve with target value and total grade? A wide range of tools to help a wide range of schools build Gibbon into a system that meets their needs.
Is there a way to add something like trend analysis, so we can see how the marks of the students are changing over the year? This is available as of v11 under Assess > Tracking. Take a look…it makes wonderful graphs! It also includes functionality for data export.
Do you create terminal reports in your school? Yes, using a custom module from +andystat at Rapid36.
What are the criteria to set the weights? Each weight can be any integer value.
Would it make sense to use different weights for markings within the reports module to create terminal reports? Perhaps!
Cheers,
Ross
Hi Ross,
Thanks a lot for answering my questions!
You write that your school is not very grade oriented and is focusing more on comment-based feedback. What is comment-based feedback?
Can I have a look at one of the terminal reports you are producing in your school?
Kind regards,
Roman
Roman,
Comment-based, as in written feedback. We do give some grades, we just don’t weight/total, etc.
I don’t have an anonymised report I can provide you with, but basically each subject gives a grade for attainment, a grade for effort and a written comment. The form tutor, and a member of our senior leadership team then also give a written comment.
Ross